Why data relevance is the key to customer experience

RICHARD GEORGE:

I hope this is a commonly held belief, but one of the things that I don't agree with is this idea that you can select a single platform or vendor that can serve all of your marketing technology needs. I think that's quite outdated. I think you need a diverse marketing stack and it needs to be made up of sort of a variety of tools, and you need to decide when a standalone tool that’s a market leader is worth having versus maybe a module on an existing tool that isn't as great.

INTRO:

You're listening to CX Confessions, brought to you by Khoros. I'm Spike Jones, General Manager of Khoros Strategic Services.

And I'm Staci Satterwhite, Chief Customer Officer at Khoros. In each episode, we'll share the customer experience stories and insights you need, straight from the sharpest minds in CX, so you can better connect with your customers

And make them customers for life. Let’s start the show.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Hello, welcome to this episode of CX Confessions. I'm Staci Satterwhite, of course, joined by the one and only Spike Jones. Spike, how you doing today?

SPIKE JONES:

Oh, well, you know, it's summer and you and I both live in Texas. You know what that means?

STACI SATTERWHITE:

It means you're trying to find a way to escape what this crazy heat actually is.

SPIKE JONES:

It’s just, I mean, sorry people who don't live in Texas, but — actually it's been hot in other places too — but anyway. No, there's lots going on, some fun stuff at work. But, you know, besides the heat, really, there's nothing I can think of. I'm getting out of here. I'm going to California in like two days, just so I can escape. So, I'm sorry that I have to leave you behind.

Oh man, I am so excited about our guest today. This guy. The experience that he's bringing to bear to talk to us today. It's really, really impressive. And I'm gonna power through this because he's done so, so much. You ready for this?

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Ready.

SPIKE JONES:

Okay, cool. He is a marketing and digital executive experienced in leading all aspects of a digital function. I'm talking about broader customer experience transformation, marketing ideation, enablement execution, so — and we're just getting warmed up. His experience covers both business and technical roles and he has been in so many different industries too. And I find those are the most fun and interesting people to talk to because they do — not unlike yourself — meld all these different experiences together to bring like some really cool thinking and abstract thinking to the roles, and he definitely does.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

One of the things I think is going to be super interesting to hear from him is he has both B2C and B2B experience which I think wow, that's a challenge.

SPIKE JONES:

For sure. And financial services, media, retail. I mean, he's lived in the USA, UK, Greece, Ireland — again, just kind of a renaissance man for sure.

But now he leads the integrated marketing function for the London Stock Exchange Group. About 150 folks working across 30 countries covering global campaigns, regional marketing, the list goes on and on. Before this, he was at Thomson Reuters, which you're familiar with.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Very.

SPIKE JONES:

Telefonica 02. And again, that list just goes on. And then he's won like a showcase full of awards. So without further ado, please help me welcome our guest today: Mr. Richard George.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Welcome, Richard.

RICHARD GEORGE:

Thank you so much. Really, really glad to be here.

SPIKE JONES:

Fantastic. So let's jump right into it. You are what we call here in the states a jack-of-all-trades and a master of a lot of them. What I love about you, and what you're bringing to this talk today, is your background, because it's so diverse. I mean, you've been, you started out in self-service. You've been on the business side, marketing, you've been across industries, B2B, B2C, then across regions, around the world, too.

Can you walk us through your digital journey, starting with your first experience with in-store digital?

RICHARD GEORGE:

Yeah, of course. Yeah. So I started my digital journey with the UK retailer called Marks and Spencer. So you may have tried one of their sandwiches when you travel to the UK. But I joined an amazing team there, about 12 years ago now, in this role as a digital business development manager, and there were really two parts to that role.

The first part was taking a thought concept and idea and building a commercial proposition around it, business case, and getting buy-in.

And the second part was really about being a product owner and seeing that through to delivery. And during that time I specialized in in-store digital. And as I mentioned, 12 years ago, technology was very different from what it is today.

SPIKE JONES:

A little bit.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

I can only imagine.

RICHARD GEORGE:

Haha yes, yeah, if only it was the thing. I had three lessons from that role. The first one was about using creativity to enable agility. So our brand new touchscreen order point kiosk interface that we created was built using screen scraping technology from our existing website. And that was the quickest route to market. So it was really about identifying how we could create something with a minimal viable product and get it to market in a quick, the quickest time possible and using creative solutions to do that.

The second piece is about the importance of aesthetics. Because I really think that they're fundamental to experience — but I do now. Back then, maybe slightly different, because the initial touch screen order point that we created looks more like the darling from Dr.Who, so we evolved that. And the second version was this beautiful, almost iPad on a stick — 40 inch iPad —

SPIKE JONES:

Very nice.

RICHARD GEORGE:

So it was really interesting to see the change in customer interaction following that upgrade. But I, you know, the other piece that I think was also really important was around finding the right use case. And really the game changer for us was when we took that application and we put it onto iPads, and having the iPad with the sales advisor and the customer together was really a game changer for how we could use technology to interact with customers in the store.

You want to go into the store to see the product. You want to go into the store to interact with people. So the iPad was a further enabler to do that.

The final lesson that I would also share was around the importance of acronyms and names. So we created the touch screen — and actually as I mentioned before, the abbreviation for that was T-SOP, which I think got the worst abbreviation award.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Acronyms matter. There's, I think there's a lesson there.

RICHARD GEORGE:

Yes, if you ever want to name a small bird maybe, a T-SOP is the right thing for it. But not an order point.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Something a little more exotic, but not probably in a consumer space.

SPIKE JONES:

Noted. Noted.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Yeah, noted. Richard, wow. Again, I can't imagine, or I can imagine how leading-edge your technology was 12 years ago. Trying to create that in-store experience, and especially how quickly it sounds like you evolved with the technology you had as well as the technology you're maybe wanting to go to, so very, very cool beginning to your journey.

I think at some point later in your journey you joined a company very familiar here to us here at Khoros: Thomson Reuters. We have lots of TR alumni here at Khoros, so they’re very familiar to us, but a very different role, very different type role than you had maybe at Marks & Spencer and some other places.

Tell us a little bit about how your digital practices or perspective differed from where you started in-store retail to where you landed at that point at TR.

RICHARD GEORGE:

Yes, sure. Yes. After M&S, I actually changed sectors to Telco. I worked for a little bit for OT Telefonica, and then I went to Dublin and worked for an Irish telecoms company there called Eircom before then joining Thomson Reuters. And the real difference between Thomson Reuters and the previous companies that I've worked for was that first, there it was predominately B2B. Secondly, was the geographical reach for sending products into 190 different countries. And then thirdly, the industries that it covered from financial services, to media, to legal, to tax and accounting.

However, one of the sort of consistent threads was the opportunity to use that digital background and broader CX experience and apply it. I really think it was incredibly transferable. The need to build using customer insight, creating experiences that are aesthetically pleasing and work, focused on how to drive performance. These things I do really think transcend different industries.

Within TR we created a new transformation program called My TR. So we learned from from the T-SOP naming and named it a lot more clearer and sustaining —

SPIKE JONES:

Very clean. I like it.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

And very self explanatory — My TR. Got it.

RICHARD GEORGE:

Yes, exactly. And this was really a consolidation of 67 different support portals —

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Wow.

RICHARD GEORGE:

— across the organization, and creating a brand new authenticated space. It was built on the same platform as our website. So we had consistency from that perspective, and it was enabled for a brand new personalization layer.

And the three lessons that I took from TR were firstly the importance of articulating a vision in more than just slide decks. So if you think about the opportunity to use concepts, mock ups, videos, and MVPs, what's so great about those kinds of mediums is that you can get true buy-in as it allows stakeholders to almost see into the future and see where you will be in a number of years’ time. So that's sort of stayed with me as I can move forward.

The second one was about the success of programs and how that directly correlates to culture, and building the right culture. And with My TR, we really wanted the people within it to feel like they were part of something bigger. We also wanted them to feel like we were acting differently — that we were more agile, we were more inclusive. And that was a real driver in the success of My TR and again, something that has stayed with me.

And finally the importance of starting focused, but dreaming big. And what we had the opportunity with My TR to do was that once, or when, TR divested its financial and risk business and created a brand new company called Refinitiv, we were then able to scale My Refinitiv — that’s what it was rebranded to — and bring it together with our new website, with our development community, with our training sites to create a broader digital ecosystem that was a truly integrated digital customer experience. And that ultimately better served our customers and our prospects.

So really, sort of I think of a program that I'll never forget, because it was something that we committed to probably, actually I'll just share one stat with you. When we started, our CM scores were at 45% satisfaction, by the end of it, they were 87%

SPIKE JONES:

Wow.

RICHARD GEORGE:

So it was something we really saw through to fruition, and so really, really proud of that and the team culture we created.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Sounds like you should be. Yeah.

SPIKE JONES:

Wow. And so, I love that — start focused and dream big — I’m going to write that one down. That's great. And you know, you're already starting, you shared, you talked about data and shared the importance of data, even just along the journey right now, today, talking about your path. And so I would love to dig in a little bit more on that.

Like, what is that data that really matters the most to you, when it comes to your customers, and how do you leverage that data to really keep innovating?

RICHARD GEORGE:

Yeah, sure. Yeah. I think the key word, and I think this has always been the key word, is relevance. The greater relevance that you can drive in your experiences, the greater impact you ultimately have from the value that you deliver to the customer, or to the business, and data is really that key component in unlocking relevance.

We have to select relevant data to do that. And that's obviously relevant from a compliance perspective, but also making sure that it's clean, organized, and ultimately, that it's in a form that you can then activate from. And I think a central enabler to driving that whole approach is a customer data platform and some kind of journey orchestrator, the complementary part of it. I think, where the tech is today — and I know the tech has been around for a number of years — but where it is today, I really do see it as a game-changer to think about how we build better customer experiences, how we gain better insights, and ultimately how we overcome some of the challenges which have already happened and are going to happen around third-party cookies as well. So it’s quite an interesting point in time.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

So you had said something earlier that I'm going to tie a couple of things together here, I think. One of the things you said earlier about your experiences at TR was really about not using slides, that's incredible, but painting a picture of the vision so that everybody is collectively working towards something and then obviously the trust that comes from that and your ability as a leader to move the organization in that direction you like. Tie that together for me with how you convinced your organization that a customer data platform is the way to prepare for a new future. Or are those two things totally disconnected?

RICHARD GEORGE:

Yeah, definitely connected. The, I think the key is coming back to the vision. So what is the vision that we're trying to create or enable? And as technology has got more powerful and usable, it's really allowed the business to change how they market to customers and prospects. And critically that shift is towards more intelligent, more automated activity that really wraps around that customer journey, as opposed to a series of batch campaigns, which of course could be complex and intelligent in their own right. But it's bigger than that.

It's really about understanding the customer and engaging them at the relevant point in time. And the CDP is really the key enabler to that shift. You have to have the real-time profile which you can build and execute segments from, and then drive that real-time personalization element, of course.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

And then if I can resume, that's how you humanize the experience, because without the actual data element and the engagement part, then you can't humanize it.

RICHARD GEORGE:

Exactly. Yeah, that allows another lens of relevance and sort of relevance and humanisation. And then adding on top of that, tools that then connect that data to the relevant teams.

But also, if I sort of give another example, if you think about the power of these kinds of email campaigns, and different kinds of advertising in the context of something like a Customer Success Program, powered by a CDP, so how do you take the insights on that customer that profile and the customer, inform what you're doing both from a human and digital element, and made sure that those two things are tied up and tied together?

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Love it. That's a really cool engagement strategy, Richard, appreciate that. Thank you.

RICHARD GEORGE:

Awesome.

SPIKE JONES:

So Richard, you have seen a lot and you have been in a lot of different industries. And so I love this question. It's a great question. But for you, I can't wait to hear your response. No pressure, no pressure whatsoever.

What is a commonly held belief in your industry that you just don't agree with?

RICHARD GEORGE:

Yeah, so I hope this is a commonly held belief, but one of the things that I don't agree with is this idea that you can select a single platform or vendor that can serve all of your marketing technology needs. I think that's quite outdated.

I think you need a diverse marketing stack and it needs to be made up of sort of a variety of tools, and you need to decide when a standalone tool that’s a market leader is worth having, versus maybe a module on an existing tool that isn't as great. You almost need to go sort of area by area and make those choices.

But the key is really about the integrations and making sure that you pull that stack together and those variety of backgrounds together. That you organize your data in the right way. The workflow works for the end user in terms of the marketer, but it also then comes together, ultimately, not as a series of siloed customer experiences, but that integrated experience for the consumer.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Love that answer. Near and dear to our hearts here at Khoros, Richard, choosing the right technology. Love that answer. Appreciate that.

RICHARD GEORGE:

Awesome.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

The name of the podcast is CX Confessions. So another favorite question of mine, and that is, okay, it's confession time: What's the hardest lesson that you've learned on this digital journey you've been on with your customers?

RICHARD GEORGE:

Yes, so I think that's quite an easy one for me to answer. Especially in my youth, maybe I was a little bit more naive about ignoring the impact that the human element has on digital customer experiences.

So now if I go back to those key stops, those touchscreen order points, the initial design of ignoring the opportunity to leverage the advisors, the sales advisors, in-store to support that proposition was a mess.

If I then think about self service more broadly, I think people are guilty of often thinking about digital service in isolation rather than the opportunity to align it to a more holistic strategy with digital-assisted channels and call centers. And then I think actually the biggest culprits in this space today are B2B companies. They build their websites, the lead gen website, so almost completely separate from any kind of human interaction — call this number or complete this form and we’ll call you back in 48 hours. That's almost like noughties thinking. It should be, we really do need to evolve that and we need to think about how does ecommerce and how does the human element play into the evolution of B2B sales online. Really, really interesting to think about the opportunity in that space.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

I think our, again, near and dear to Khoros’s heart here from the human element of a digital experience. And one of the things I like a lot about what you've said is from the entire journey, there shouldn't be a breakpoint at when you become a customer from before you are a customer. It's the entire journey that needs to have that human element.

SPIKE JONES:

Speaking of the human elements, there is something we love to do with all of our illustrious guests to get a glimpse into you as a person, Richard.

So if you don't mind, welcome to Quick-Fire Confessions. These are five questions to let us get a glimpse into the real you. Question number one: What was your first concert, my friend?

RICHARD GEORGE:

Ha. So, I actually took my sister to a Taylor Swift concert and Justin Bieber was the warm up act. So I probably should have a trendier answer so I don’t need to say that I ever went to a Taylor Swift or Justin Timberlake, Justin Bieber concert again.

SPIKE JONES:

I mean, if you gotta choose one, you're going with the big dogs, so that's pretty impressive. I'm sure. You said you took your niece?

RICHARD GEORGE:

My sister.

SPIKE JONES:

Your sister. So, best brother ever. Best brother ever.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

And clearly your choices there are very commercially adopted by others. So yeah, you're not alone there. Clearly.

Okay, next question. What profession, other than your own, would you attempt or would you like to be good at if you could?

RICHARD GEORGE:

So, at one point in my life, almost another life, I almost became a fast jet pilot.

SPIKE JONES:

Wow.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Ooh! Top Gun!

RICHARD GEORGE:

If I have my time again, maybe I’ll be Maverick.

SPIKE JONES:

Wow.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

That's a nice one.

SPIKE JONES:

Yeah, absolutely. Very timely, very timely.

I would love to hear, from your perspective especially because of your background and your appreciation for all things aesthetics, and seamlessness: What is your favorite app on your phone right now?

RICHARD GEORGE:

You know, I am sort of a little bit addicted to LinkedIn. I sort of see it as a, not from a job search perspective.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Luckily it’s way more than that. We all know. It’s way more than that, Richard.

RICHARD GEORGE:

Scrolling and scrolling and scrolling through content, I almost feel like I waste my life if I do it on Facebook, but that LinkedIn seems a bit more of an acceptable guilty pleasure to be doing that on. So LinkedIn is the app of choice.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

But I actually totally agree with him. Like, if there's some, there's some productivity factors to be gained from some of that scrolling. At least that's what I tell myself.

SPIKE JONES:

Sure. I mean, I guess. I mean, we could just have a separate podcast on how LinkedIn has changed over the pandemic and how it's just it's really interesting to see what people post. I use it mostly from an information — like people are posting great articles or work hacks or any of that great stuff, too.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Yeah, of course. Okay. All right. Next, ooh, this will be a fun one.

We already know quite a bit about your, at least your first job from a professional standpoint. I'm gonna go into getting into your personal preferences from an indulgence standpoint. What is your biggest indulgence?

RICHARD GEORGE:

Cake.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Any particular kind of cake?

RICHARD GEORGE:

Every kind. I like the old Christmas cake and mince pies. I actually saw an article the other day, I think it's Top 50 Worst Foods voted internationally. I think both of those were on it, along with Battenberg. If you've ever had Battenberg, which is a British cake. But cake is my weakness.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

I've never had Battenberg. Okay. I’m going to have to put it on the life's bucket list. Thanks for the introduction Richard, thank you.

SPIKE JONES:

And then lastly, what, Richard, would you say is your life motto?

RICHARD GEORGE:

Is the juice worth the squeeze?

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Oh, good one.

RICHARD GEORGE:

I always, always think about that.

SPIKE JONES:

Yeah. It applies to a lot of different situations for sure.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Very good one, Richard. Thank you.

SPIKE JONES:

And speaking of thank you, I'm wrapping it up. Richard, this has been a delight. Thank you for coming on the show and sharing your expertise with us. It has been a great conversation. I know I've personally gotten a lot out of it too. And I know our listeners did too.

So Mr. Richard George, thank you again for joining us.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Thanks, Richard. Great having you.

RICHARD GEORGE:

Thank you.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Wow, what an incredible conversation today with Richard. So much to take away from there, but there's a couple few things that I got that I really need to think about and ponder.

First, on the Marks & Spencer use case project, that the team did all the way from creativity to: acronyms matter.

SPIKE JONES:

Haha.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Right? That was one of my favorite moments: acronyms matter.

SPIKE JONES:

Sure.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

And then he moved on to making sure you establish a strong vision with no slides — that resonated with me, right.

SPIKE JONES:

I gotta try that.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Yeah, yeah, I'm not good at that.

And then how important culture is and trust in the team to make sure then that you're actually staying focused on the big picture. So much there to take away from what Richard shared with us today.

What stood out for you, Spike?

SPIKE JONES:

I mean, those are great ones and I do definitely need to try the no-slide even though that’s such a crutch for me. But usually just pictures. I don't like to put words on the slides.

But for me, it was really, I mean, it's a basic thing, but for someone like him to keep it front and center, of that human element whenever he's designing, right. And I think we can get so caught up in the technology and the coolness of the technology that we forget sometimes how humans can and might interact with the piece of tech that we put out there too when it comes to customer experience.

But that was a really, really big one to me. And then the other one was: don't lose focus, but think big. That was it, right?

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Yeah, that was good. Stay focused on delivering big.

SPIKE JONES:

That's right. Stay focused on delivering big. I thought that was great, too. And that's just a great mindset for anyone in any industry. That yes, we have this end goal that we need to get to but, you know, we can all take different ways to get there and often big ways are the ones that work best.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

He certainly seemed like the right guy to establish something big, and how many groups of TR did he bring into one centralized thing? Like, wow. Speaking of thinking big. Right person to think big, put it together, cast the vision, build a team that is high-trusting to deliver and get it done? Like that's not easy stuff.

SPIKE JONES:

Not at all. And again, like we said in the intro, I was just so fascinated about his background being so diverse. I mean, starting out early in his career putting basically iPads on a stick in retail stores. That's an experience that he's going to bring with him.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Exactly. And I think what was that, like 11 or 12 years ago, man, wow, what a migration and transformation of this industry and space that he's seen. So, wow, what a cool background and a cool set of experiences. And I loved, the one thing I'm actually thinking about incorporating into my world already is: is the juice worth the squeeze?

SPIKE JONES:

Is the juice worth the squeeze? Yeah, I'm gonna find myself asking myself that on a regular basis for sure.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

I think so, too. Very, you know, both life and professionally appropriate to be perfectly candid with you.

SPIKE JONES:

Amen. Preach it, preach it.

STACI SATTERWHITE:

Very cool. Well, Spike it’s always so much fun doing this with you. I can't wait for our next episode. Grateful for your time. Have a lovely trip to San Diego. Until next time, we're signing off for CX Confessions.

OUTRO:

Now more than ever, your customers expect to be understood on a personal level. Their likes or dislikes, their history with your brand, and their communication preferences. But so many companies struggle to connect the dots of interaction across their own teams and channels, which can lead to customer experience challenges and disasters. That's where Khoros can help. The award-winning customer engagement platform was built to turn those siloed interactions with your customers into enterprise value.

Khoros works with more than 2,000 of the world's leading brands powering more than 500 million digital interactions every single day. Learn more at @khoros.com.

Thanks for listening to CX Confessions brought to you by Khoros. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure to hit subscribe in your favorite podcast app and give us a rating.

See you next time.