INTRO:
You're listening to CX Confessions, brought to you by Khoros. In each episode, we’ll share the customer experience stories and insights you need — straight from the sharpest minds in CX — to better connect with your customers and create customers for life. Let's start the show.
KATHERINE CALVERT
Hello, hello. Welcome to CX Confessions. I'm Katherine Calvert, Chief Marketing Officer for Khoros, your host today along with my fabulous co-host, Mr. Spike Jones, GM of our Strat Services team. How are you doing today, Spike?
SPIKE JONES
I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for having me.
KATHERINE CALVERT
I am doing fantastic too because we're going to have another amazing conversation. I am so excited about our guest today, Spike. You and I know Lisa as one of the most popular speakers at last year's Khoros Engage.
SPIKE JONES
True story.
KATHERINE CALVERT
Lisa McKnight is SVP and Global Head of Barbie and Dolls for Mattel Inc. Okay, so she oversees the entire doll portfolio for Mattel. She leads a global team in strategy, product development, and marketing execution. Barbie is such an amazing and iconic brand. She's almost — she doesn't look it, but she's over 60 years old, and yet she is also one of the most modern and progressive stories in the market today. It was an incredible year — was actually an incredible 18 months.
Barbie has been a really important part of this journey for a lot of folks dealing with some challenging topics, and at the same time that leadership that Lisa has demonstrated contributed to an incredible year for Mattel and Barbie was named the number one global toy property last year. Number one. Biggest toy in the world. Yes.
So lots has happened since we last spoke to Lisa, so excited to have her on the show, welcome Lisa.
LISA MCKNIGHT
Well thanks Katherine, thanks Spike. It's great to be with you guys.
KATHERINE CALVERT
We are so excited to have you. As I said, you were one of the most popular speakers we had at our customer event, and everybody knows Barbie but they don't — if, unless you have a front row seat, maybe a child in the franchise, you might not have been as close to the incredible story and what you have spearheaded for the franchise over the last few years.
So when you look back on the last 18 months, what, what kind of stands out for you?
LISA MCKNIGHT
Oh boy. Well, I think the first thing that stands out is just incredible pride in the collective team. There's a team behind Barbie. I like to say that it doesn't take a small village to run this brand, it takes a small metro area to run this brand. There's a lot of people contributing to Barbie’s success, and the resilience that everyone showed when we had to pivot and move to, you know, our home offices — the creativity, the resourcefulness. I'm just incredibly proud of the collective team's effort and like you said, it's been a banner year for us, despite all of the challenges.
KATHERINE CALVERT
Well and you brought Barbie through that journey with all of us, having her work from home and, yeah.
LISA MCKNIGHT
Well and honestly so much of the work that we started five or six years ago, in a weird way, prepared us for this last 18 months. I mean, from the need to be flexible and agile, and to adjust to how our consumers were feeling during the pandemic to make sure we were listening, and, you know, certainly not acting tone deaf, but also the way the team responded to Black Lives Matter, and a lot of the societal unrest and important conversations that have been happening, you know, if we hadn't started to evolve and modernized Barbie over five years ago we would not have been prepared to deal with all of these challenges.
KATHERINE CALVERT
And I think when you joined the team those five years ago, or however long it's been now, I know it was really important to you to establish a kind of a North Star, that mission or purpose for Barbie. How do you, how does, what did that look like then and is it still constant?
LISA MCKNIGHT
Yes, well, you know, again, when we really looked at the brand and sort of took an audit, if you will, and sort of appraised where we were in the marketplace and what the consumer feedback was, we knew that we had moved away from a North Star, and we had moved away from the grounding principles that our founder had for Barbie, you know, back in 1959, which was always to inspire the limitless potential in every girl. And certainly that message of empowerment resonates today. And we decided to go back to our roots to, you know, build upon the future. And inspiring the limitless potential in every girl has been our guiding focus ever since then.
SPIKE JONES
That's, going back to your roots to look towards the future. I love that. And so, you know, you've already hit on it just even a little bit but, you know, you have this inanimate object, this toy, and you have created this — sure she's always had a personality and all that good stuff, but you've really, and your team have really made her real. And dealing with today's situations and today's, you know, society and unrest and all that, too. I mean that's a pretty remarkable thing to take a toy, and insert it into the, you know, the greater public commentary. Can you talk a little bit about that journey and how you brought her really to life and how you keep her real?
LISA MCKNIGHT
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Spike, for that question. You know it's funny. The other thing we learned a few years ago was, we were letting other people tell Barbie’s story versus Barbie herself telling her story. And with all of the advancements, you know, made with YouTube, and these social platforms that started developing, we learned that we had an opportunity to have Barbie start to develop as a character, as a persona, and have a first-person dialogue with our fans. So we created Barbie Blogger, as a show on our YouTube channel, where Barbie talks just like we're talking right now about current events, and how she's feeling, and she talks about good days and bad days and talks about what's happening in the world. She also does fun activities that kids find entertaining. But that's been a really powerful platform for us and so that was an example of something that we used, again, when we all went into lockdown mode and everyone started to shelter in place. We had Barbie immediately record a vlog. We put her to work, and talk about how she was feeling in these new times, and tried to provide comfort to kids that it's normal to feel isolated and to be concerned about what's this uncertainty, and then she provided some tips on how to manage through it.
So that was, that was great content that we started to use to humanize Barbie, and then of course from an adult standpoint, we have a lot of fun on Instagram. Barbie’s got a social channel called @BarbieStyle. And again, you know, she started to shelter in place. All of our posts were her in her home. She started to pick up new recipes and bake bread. She cut her own bangs. And then when she finally started going outside and socializing with friends, she had a mask on. So we also tried to make her relatable for our adult fans, too.
SPIKE JONES
Yeah and so, and so relevant. I mean, that, I didn't see any, you know, we got all the commercials from all the brands and, “We're all in this together,” and, you know, got all of that but you, I never saw something like this where you immediately pivoted and said, you know, we can be a part of this conversation and we can help lead the way, not only with kids, but also with adults. So really, really cool to see that pivot happen.
LISA MCKNIGHT
Thank you.
KATHERINE CALVERT
I love, Lisa, too, how you made Barbie so real for your own team. I remember you saying to me, we all work for Barbie. When you talk about her, yeah when you talk about her internally, she's very real.
LISA MCKNIGHT
No, it's so true. She is a “she.” We talk about her in that regard, and we do work for her and we are her, you know, her business manager, her publicist, her stylist, her financial accountants, her agents —
KATHERINE CALVERT
Dog walker —
LISA MCKNIGHT
And we do think of her as talent. You know, we think of her as talent. And so what, what does our client want to do, what would Barbie do, and how do we, you know, bring her to these great opportunities and introduce her into these important conversations.
KATHERINE CALVERT
And I think that the theme that we're talking about — making her real, creating that human connection. That's something that comes up a lot on the show as we talk about real CX, true customer experience is about connection and relationships. I have been very touched by your newest campaign, which is all about human connection and the role that play and Barbie can have in fostering really, you know, ultimately a better world. But tell me about the inspiration, tell me about the campaign.
LISA MCKNIGHT
Well, thank you. The campaign is our latest brand work. I'm incredibly excited and proud of the work, and it talks about the benefits of playing with Barbie and how, when kids play with Barbie, whether they're with other friends or they're alone, empathy is uncovered and unearthed inside of them. And this is based on an actual scientific study that we started a couple years ago, in partnership with Cardiff University in the UK, where we always wanted to understand the science behind Barbie.
We've studied kids and how they play with Barbie and dolls for years. We knew that there were benefits, but we thought it would be really interesting to get hard data to actually prove out the benefits. And what we found was just that: that empathy and understanding and walking in someone else's shoes is what is unlocked when a child is imagining storytelling and role playing with Barbie and dolls. And that's what we wanted to convey in this new campaign, which is titled, “A Doll Can Help Change the World.”
And we say that because, of course, there are many contributors to children's development. And, you know, fostering this next generation. But we do believe that playing with Barbie is positive. And there are a lot of positive associations that can be gleaned from that play experience.
KATHERINE CALVERT
I love that story and I just think it's amazing that a brand like Barbie is still thinking about the ways that she can change the world. And speaking of that, Barbie and the Mattel family are also looking at the world, physically, and its footprint, and how it can help. I was struck, I saw the announcement recently about Mattel's playback program. And I think you have some news to share about Barbie and her commitment to sustainability.
LISA MCKNIGHT
Yes, yes. Very excited to share, first, that Mattel, a few months ago announced our long-term goal towards sustainability. So by 2030, our goal as a company is to use 100% recycled, recyclable, or bio-based plastic materials in both our products and packaging. So this is a big undertaking. We've given ourselves, you know, a few years to figure it out, but there's a lot to do. And so each brand is working against that longer-term Mattel goal.
What I'm really proud to share is we just announced our very first fashion doll collection made from recycled, ocean-bound, recycled plastic, called Barbie Loves the Ocean. That's a collection of three dolls, a play set, and some other accessories, and the launch was timed to World Ocean Day. So it's not only a great first step in our commitment to lessening our environmental impact, it's also a really proud moment for us to add to our social responsibility mission. We've been very focused, of course, on empowerment, diversity, inclusivity, and now we're focused on environmental impact as well.
We know we have a lot of work to do in this space. The manufacturing is complex. The sourcing of the materials is not easy. And of course the consumer expectation is that the dolls are fabulous, look the same, feel the same. So quality control, aesthetics, all really important. So we're walking before we run, but really excited that the team was able to accomplish this, and you know, to see what the consumer response is.
SPIKE JONES
Very cool. I mean, again, part of the, the narrative that's going on and things that people are talking about — and expect, like you said, the expectation is there. So a cool first step in that journey. So congratulations on that. So we always have two questions that we ask every guest, and so the first one of which is: what is a commonly held belief or industry practice that you passionately disagree with, or I'll give you an option, what is something about your industry that you would like to change?
LISA MCKNIGHT
Okay, well it's, that's a good one. You know, one thing I would say that has been a really big conversation topic at Mattel and also in the industry — I've got the fortune of representing Mattel on the Foundation Board of the toy industry association. And so we've had a lot of discussions about this, but really increasing diversity in the toy industry and specifically Black representation in the industry overall, but especially in product design. We definitely need to do more here to educate Black students about a career in toys and get to them earlier in the process. There's a lot we can also do with graduate design schools and design programs.
But I'm really excited to see, not only Mattel, but also the industry at large, embrace the need for more diversity and inclusivity and representation in this industry because the toys we make need to reflect the world that kids see around them.
SPIKE JONES
Yeah, that's a great point and it's really, I mean, it's one of the things that I guess most people don't even think about when it comes to the toy industry — about the diversification — and we see it in the toys themselves, and that's been happening of course over the past handful of years, but the people that are actually working there. So, again, kudos, and again, you know, something that we need to all be thinking about no matter what industry that we're in.
KATHERINE CALVERT
So the second question, Lisa, that we ask all our guests is about data. Anybody in, in our space, all of us are just overwhelmed by so much data. There's so much you can know. I'm sure in your seat, you've got many spreadsheets open in any given day. How do you think about data and what are some of the things you really pay most attention to?
LISA MCKNIGHT
Well, we look at, like you said, so much data. You know, again, I would say everything starts with the consumer. So we're always very eager to understand what consumers are thinking about our products, how consumers are shopping. We love shopper data and we work closely with our retail partners to collect that data as well as for us to share with them what we're seeing for them to share with us, and we're also very interested in the media landscape and understanding what is working in the mix of, you know, demand creation, assets, and media strategies that we're using. As we know, the landscape is so fragmented, we've got to go and spread our dollars and budgets across many platforms. So it's always really exciting when we get our annual media mix analysis to understand where we're getting the biggest return on our investment.
SPIKE JONES
Yeah and that landscape is always changing, right, and there are always new channels to understand and see if they are relevant. I mean, does Barbie have a TikTok channel?
LISA MCKNIGHT
Absolutely. Wait, say that again?
SPIKE JONES
I was just, I mean I'm just throwing it out there.
LISA MCKNIGHT
Coming soon. We are, we're present on TikTok based on you know a lot of influencers, but we've had some, you know hurdles we've had to get past because again we're a kid's company, so we've got to be careful when we go into these channels that are adult-targeted. But, but we're hoping that we've got a solve, and coming soon.
SPIKE JONES
Very cool. We'll keep, we'll keep a lookout for that. Now we always love to celebrate our guests’ victories as we all do as marketers, like to talk about the good times, but I've found that, you know, a lot of times our successes are based on some times when we have missteps where we have hard lessons that we have learned. Can you share a hard lesson that you've learned along the way in this journey with Mattel and Barbie?
LISA MCKNIGHT
So many. I would say one of the biggest lessons is that you cannot assume anything. And I think, Katherine, you teed it up at the beginning of this podcast, you know, not everyone has been tracking the progress that Barbie’s been making, not everyone's been tracking the evolution that's been occurring, and sometimes we assume people are in lockstep with us and they're not.
We, you know, get some feedback on social and sometimes it's negative, and we have to just appreciate that, you know, sometimes people need more context, and we've got to get everyone on the journey with us, as well as there's work to be done. This is a brand that's got six decades of legacy. There's a lot that's imprinted on people. Much of it is good, but you know there is some — that we've had some missteps along the way and so, to shift perception and to bring people on the journey of where Barbie is today and what Barbie represents is something that we have to work hard at. All the time.
SPIKE JONES
For sure. Wait, you're saying that there's negativity on social media, Lisa? You're kidding me. I don't see, I've never seen any of that.
LISA MCKNIGHT
Exactly. Can you imagine?
KATHERINE CALVERT
Feedback is a gift. Feedback is a gift. Feedback is a gift. Right?
LISA MCKNIGHT
Exactly. “Thank you for your feedback.”
SPIKE JONES
But, but also it's cool to see a brand like Barbie doing what I fundamentally believe social was created for in the first place, is bringing people together and sharing different ideas and having a healthy debate too, with respect to one another for sure. But, you know, I love that brands can help lead the way to for us to get back to what social was originally created for. So that's really great to see.
KATHERINE CALVERT
All right well, Lisa, thank you so much for sharing the Barbie story and the latest and greatest from Mattel. We always like to wrap up with a little bit of fun. We've talked a lot about humanity and authenticity and connection. And so we always end with five quick questions about our guest to get to know you a little bit better as a leader, a person, and a friend, and a mom and all those good things. So five quick questions. I’ll start off. What was your first concert?
LISA MCKNIGHT
Okay, my first concert: San Francisco Civic Auditorium.
KATHERINE CALVERT and SPIKE JONES
Ohh, really?
LISA MCKNIGHT
The J. Geils Band. And guess who was the opening act for the J. Geils Band? A little band from Ireland called U2.
KATHERINE CALVERT and SPIKE JONES
No way. No way. Oh my gosh.
LISA MCKNIGHT
So, of course since then I've seen many U2 concerts.
KATHERINE CALVERT
Wow.
LISA MCKNIGHT
Not so much J. Geils.
KATHERINE CALVERT
But in Civic Center. I mean that is a small space. That's incredible. That might be, I think, that just, you just topped the leaderboard on the cool quotient of our guests so far. No offense everybody. Yeah.
SPIKE JONES
I went to their Joshua Tree Tour a couple, a handful of years ago.
KATHERINE CALVERT
Yeah. It's more than you’d care to count but it was a great tour, Spike. So good.
SPIKE JONES
So good. That's really cool. First job. How about your first job?
LISA MCKNIGHT
Okay, another, another San Francisco reference. I'm a native San Franciscan. So first job was working at Fredericksen’s Hardware store on —
SPIKE JONES
Wow.
LISA MCKNIGHT
Fillmore Street.
SPIKE JONES
Nice.
LISA MCKNIGHT
As a holiday gift wrapper. And, like, the worst thing I had to wrap was a ladder.
KATHERINE CALVERT
Oh my gosh.
SPIKE JONES
That's a lot of paper.
KATHERINE CALVERT
Yeah, I did that down at Macy's, but at least it was a box. I wasn't thinking about, like hardware, I mean how do you —
SPIKE JONES
Did you wrap this? Did they put it under the tree? I don't even know.
KATHERINE CALVERT
How much paper?
LISA MCKNIGHT
It was like reams of paper. It was awful, and of course then the line was building, everyone wanted their stuff wrapped, the pressure was on. It was horrible.
KATHERINE CALVERT
Do you have flashbacks at Christmas as you prepare, on Christmas Eve? Yeah.
LISA MCKNIGHT
I do, yeah.
KATHERINE CALVERT
Yes, okay. Well, speaking of first jobs, if you couldn't do what you're doing now, what profession would you attempt?
LISA MCKNIGHT
Oh, well, there are a few. I mean there's actually a lot of things I'd love to do, as well as what I'm doing now, but one is I would love to be a professor at a university, teach a class on brand marketing and personal branding. I've done a couple of guest lectures in schools, and just love the dialogue with students.
KATHERINE CALVERT
I would too. I cannot imagine that would be a hard gig for you to get. You just don't have the time right now. Yeah. They would be lucky.
LISA MCKNIGHT
That could be really fun. And then I should share that I, back in the day I did want to be a broadcast journalist. I did a summer internship at NBC affiliate station in San Francisco. But when I found out that part of the gig was you had to move to these little towns that no one has heard of and pay your dues, I, as well as the early hours, I'm not a morning person. So realize that can be rough.
KATHERINE CALVERT
Yeah, or the late nights. Yeah, I had the same experience with a local KPIX internship — this seems sort of terrible.
[Laughter]
SPIKE JONES
How about your favorite app on your phone right now?
LISA MCKNIGHT
Oh goodness. Well, again, I look at so many, so many apps all the time. What I would say is new to me this year has been Headspace. Headspace is an app that Mattel has encouraged all of us to download. They bought a corporate membership, and I love it. It's great. I've actually been encouraging my teenage daughters to use it too, just to have a couple you know breathing exercises, you know, help getting everyone centered.
SPIKE JONES
Yeah, I wish I could just get his voice to come through my Google Home. That would be nice.
LISA MCKNIGHT
It's been interesting for me.
SPIKE JONES
So soothing. It's so soothing.
LISA MCKNIGHT
Oh yes.
SPIKE JONES
But that's really cool that they got you, that they did that as a corporation and encouraging. That's really cool.
LISA MCKNIGHT
It was great. Yeah, yeah, Mattel has been very hyper-focused on wellness and just, you know, taking care of our employees, which is great to see.
KATHERINE CALVERT
Okay, last question: What is Lisa McKnight’s biggest indulgence?
LISA MCKNIGHT
Oh, I love a good Aperol Spritz. Now that we're in the summer season.
KATHERINE CALVERT
That's a really nice summer, yeah, that's a good summer call.
LISA MCKNIGHT
I would say, but I would say in terms of just, yeah, I would say travel. I mean I love a good trip. I love planning, I love researching, and I love, I love spending money on experiences.
KATHERINE CALVERT
How, so it's, we're talking to you now at the beginning of summer, how, what does the rest of the year look like? Do you think you'll be able to get out and about? Are you planning anything? You don't have to tell us where but I'm wondering how you're thinking about getting out there.
LISA MCKNIGHT
Yes, planning a few trips, so excited about that. A couple trips for family members that are milestone birthdays that got postponed last year.
KATHERINE CALVERT
Aw, yeah, awesome.
LISA MCKNIGHT
Some good, some good gatherings are coming up which I'm excited about. And then I think I'll wait a year. I think 2022 will be the year of more adventure travel.
SPIKE JONES
Yeah, that makes sense.
KATHERINE CALVERT
Yes. All right, Lisa, it is always such a pleasure to see you, to hear from you, to hear the story. You are doing amazing things and we're grateful to have you on the show. Thank you for coming.
LISA MCKNIGHT
Well thanks, Katherine, so much for having me and thanks, Spike. It's been so much fun, as always, to hang out with you guys.
SPIKE JONES
Thank you so much.
KATHERINE CALVERT
All right, well thank you, and thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you next time on CX Confessions.
KHOROS:
Your customers expect to be understood — their likes and dislikes, their history with your brand, and their communication preferences. But so many companies struggle to connect the dots of the interaction across their own teams and channels and its creating customer experience challenges and disasters. That's where Khoros can help. Khoros is the award-winning customer engagement platform built to turn those siloed interactions with your customer into enterprise value. Khoros works with more than 2,000 of the world's leading brands and powers more than 500 million digital interactions every day. Khoros is the award-winning platform for digital-first customer engagement. Ready to create human connection across the digital customer experience to create customers for life? Learn more at Khoros.com.
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